Category: Faith Explorers Recent Topics

Chapt 5 Borg speaks of the Bible as the Word of God and Jesus as the Word of God and that Jesus trumps the Bible. We recognise that both have authority, but in the end analysis, we only know Jesus from what is in the Bible. We think though that Jesus is the lens through which we interpret the Bible, so in that sense, Jesus is pre-eminent. The present biblical cannon has been in its present form from around 365CE. Items only become ‘sacred’ when people so regard them as such – largely through their association with a significant time, person, place or of great age. The Bible has elements of all these. [Items associated with the Gallipoli landings are now becoming sacred.] Most ‘fringe’ religious groups have leaders that are not trained in Biblical studies – so what the Bible says is taken at face value. However careful and knowledgeably considered writings should provide a balance against leaders with extreme ideas.

Chapt 6 The biblical writers were not reporters – a long time after the actual events, they recalled that they saw and heard through their cultural lens and their experiences since the events took place. They looked for God’s actions in significant events. Often their stories are parabolic ie they are in the form of a parable, not reporting an actual event. Jesus would have told and re-told his parables – so they would be subtly different with each re-telling. Borg calls for the Bible to be taken seriously but not literally – which members of the group do. Ministers often do not preach what they have learnt in training perhaps because they are concerned about a backlash or of upsetting people. They gravitate towards being more of a Pastoral Elder than a Teaching Elder. We see faith expressed in the quality of people’s lives – whether of conservative or liberal persuasion. In the end one’s theology is not the key aspect of being a Christian [– but it does make for interesting discussions!]

We considered these chapters under a number of headings. Chapt 3 Mystic experiences: many of the group had had such experiences – connectness, can’t will it, not scary, can’t explain, are the experiences of/caused by God?, more often in a quiet environment. God as a ‘cosmic parent’: is comforting when situation is out of one’s control – natural or man-made. Authoriarian God image is very ‘male’ – controlling, organising. What if parent image was more adventurous, explorative, creative, experimentation? Panenthesism: General support in the group but if God is in everything (and beyond) that also includes the concept of sin/evil. God can only be present in people and other sentient beings – not in inanimate objects. Intellectually correct theology: agreed not necessary but need some internal reconciliation before able to talk with others. Always need to be open to further insights, understandings and potential to change views.

Chapt 4 Stages of Faith: Many have been proposed – Borg in this chapter, James Fowler and Scott Peck elsewhere. Everyone will be in different places – not necessarily a continuim with progression from one stage to the ‘next’. Some will be happy to stay wherever they are, others will also be enquiring and more likley to move. One stage is not better than any other, similarly whether there is movement or not. Salvation as ‘transformation’: most members agreed but transformation is both at a personal level and in business/economic systems/the world. The present Western economic market model keeps more than half the population in near or actual poverty – it and the powerful people in it require ‘transformation’. Afterlife?: We too are agnostic as Borg is.

Focus on Chapt 1, where Borg sets out a few of the major conflicts which have resulted in divisions that have shaped Christianity ie the adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire – Jesus is Lord not the Emperor & the Nicene Creed (what you need to believe) (325 & 451), the Eastern Orthodox – Roman Catholic split (1054) resulting in Crusader conflict/slaughter in 1204, the Reformation where the Bible and reason replaced the authority of the Pope.

Borg identifies 5 approaches to Christianity in 21st century America – Conservative, Conventional, Uncertain, Former, Progressive. These categorisations resulted in much discussion: is it natural to expect a progression from one to another; how to encourage Conservatives and Conventional to see a wider vision than a narrow Biblical interpretation; what are the dangers for the church if it is dominated by Conservatives and Conventionals eg an attempt to wind back the past, become increasingly out of touch with society; is is possible to have worship together that satisfies most people in most categories.

Perhaps a focus on what Christians can and should do to assist society by showing the same love as Jesus did is more significant than ‘labels’.

We watched 2 TED talks – ‘The Price of Shame’ by Monica Lewinsky and Matthieu Ricard discussing the arise of the anthropocene – the age of Humans and need for greater altruism

Lewinsky reflected on the 1998 revelation of her affair with the Bill Clinton and how she was the first ‘victim’ of vilification in and by the internet. How this was relentless and very overwhelming. There is no way to rebuff. The ocassional voice of empathy, compassion provided a much need relief and support; it was a huge comfort to know that some people were walking with her and not seeking to destroy.

Ricard observes that humans are now making huge impacts on the eco system that earth will not recover from quickly – if at all. The danage takes many forms. By carrying on as we are, we are showing a complete disregard for others and future generations. It boils down to altruism versus selfishness; more caring/consideration for others. Coopperation is much more creative. Mediation as a tool to train the brain to be more ultralistic. Cultures can change fast so to move fast to prevent ecological disaster he suggests: enhance cooperation, sustainable harmony, caring economics, local commitment – global responsibility, extend altruism to all 1.6 million sentient beings => Dare Altruism!!

Bruce gave us a whirlwind tour through the histories of the world’s religions, with many illustrations to emphasise the point being made. The valuable point was made that we can’t know, ie be certain, what happened in the past, because all events are ‘seen through’ the eyes of a non-neutral person, their beliefs, outlooks, personal feelings will colour what is ‘seen’ and how events are interpreted. History is written by the victor!

A ‘Faithiest’ is a person of faith but not strongly aligned with any particular religious stream; they support the right to have express a religious conviction but have no religious affiliation themselves. Could be members of an interfaith movement. Chris Steadman is the leading advocate of the term Faithiest.

We did agree that children in NZ are missing out on not being taught about the world’s religions because it could be seen as pushing a particular one. However NZ is a Christain country, with laws, traditions, society norms that reflect a Christian heritage. Future generations are in danger of loosing this basis for society because at present at least, ‘religions’ are seen as somehow bad. Religions provide a moral rudder and keel and so moderate extreme reactions in times of stress and rapid change.

We considered the key aspects in the Bible and for us personally. While crucifixion was common form of execution, the consequence impact on his disciples was quite different. The consequences of Easter are more important than the stories (and the details). Easter does matter as it offers an opportunity to retell the story in the light of today’s society issues. Unfortunately we and the national church don’t reframe the story. Note theology is our creation – neither true nor false – just an interpretation how how things are that is meant to be helpful not a millstone. What is the mystery of Jesus’s death that lead to so many people being inspired to step out and speak up, often to great personal cost? It has transformative power goodness can’t be destroyed – it gives hope.

Reflects the strongly religious society in America (and its political implications) not the strongly secular society of NZ. The church has been under threat for 2000 years but has survived. The present practice of bringing churches together (in CVs) keeps some presence I nthehope that something new will arise. We need new modelsof church. The puropse of ‘church members’ is to demonstrate The Way by living and communicating it. If the local church disappears where will teaching take place?

What is the purpose of the economy – to live and be sustainable. We are heading towards self-destruction by making more money for those who already have too much. This is recognised by most people but why aren’t we doing anything about it? Senior managers are ‘servants of the system’ ie not in control of it, so change can’t come from within. Economics is a system and should be for the benefit of all. The development of the economic story – how it all works – is not necessarily true or the only way/system. Life is about being, not accummulating!! Time is Life – v – Time is Money!!

Mission stations were only established at the invitation of Maori in 1820s though with little ‘success’. In late 1830s, Maori did more to spread the Gospel than Missionaries with its message of love. Rejection of ‘utu’. Mainly used gospel of Luke. By 1850s more Maori adherents than European. The Mana of the Treaty and the Missionaries was strongly linked – we are one people.

The ‘bad’ behaviour of Europeans especially (non) Sunday observance and the land wars destroyed Maori trust in ‘Missionary Christianity’ and led to the emergence of Maori Christian sects.